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It's not about the looks by Dontknowwhattodraw94 It's not about the looks by Dontknowwhattodraw94
A short summary of what I've been thinking about lately.
After that Smilodon drawing I posted, depicting it like Duane Nash talked about on his blog, it got spread around a bit on social media and of course I followed it to see how people reacted. 
Lots of recistance, which was no suprise, but it did bother me how people reacted with stuff like "this is ridiculous", "this is STUPID" and stuff that hints that I don't know what I draw. (heh, close to me username xD ) 
However, that thing about the covered sabreteeth was indeed something way out of everyone's comfort zone, including mine, and it was kinda normal people reacted this way. What does stand out though is that or people called it stupid because they thought it looked like that or simply didn't read the article looking at how everyone brought up arguments that got debunked in the article itself. Only a handfull of people actually started a scientific discussion.
The next reason why I made this is because the media finally found out dinosaurs had lips and boy, could you see the fanboys and awesomebros whine because Rexy didn't show her teeth. And we weren't even talking about feathers...
And finally one last thing for this short writing thingy: www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NJJTA…

Maybe I will spread this on social media, maybe not, after all there's a trolling Smilodon with covered sabres in three different ways. 

Bullet; Green Photographs used:

Harpy eagle: www.pinterest.com/pin/30174124…
Calm tiger: 
: carolyntravels.com/tag/royal-b…
Silly bear: 
photography.nationalgeographic…
Komodo dragon: 
www.animalsunited.nl/alle-dier…
Angry tiger: 
www.fotolibra.com/gallery/6883…

Bullet; Green Drawings by me.


Bullet; Green Smilodon depictions

Traditional
Pockets
Lowered mouth corner
Lips

Add a Comment:
 
:iconserulfen:
Serulfen Featured By Owner May 8, 2017  Student General Artist
I love this. This is so perfectly worded and I wish I could favorite it a five million times.
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:icondontknowwhattodraw94:
Dontknowwhattodraw94 Featured By Owner May 8, 2017  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Thanks :D
Reply
:iconkaprosuchusdragon:
KaprosuchusDragon Featured By Owner Jan 9, 2017
couldyou upload the resting rex in full size its so nice :)
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:icondontknowwhattodraw94:
Dontknowwhattodraw94 Featured By Owner Jan 10, 2017  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I doubt I still have that drawing.
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:iconkaprosuchusdragon:
KaprosuchusDragon Featured By Owner Jan 10, 2017
aww :C
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:iconpaleosir:
paleosir Featured By Owner Aug 2, 2016  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Indeed, I agree.

(suprising is that 'general helghast' is not here...hehe)
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:icondontknowwhattodraw94:
Dontknowwhattodraw94 Featured By Owner Aug 2, 2016  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Yeah, weird that nobody of the anti-lips folks has come here yet.
Reply
:icondovahkiinhu3br:
DovahkiinHU3BR Featured By Owner Aug 20, 2016
Actually he is no longer anti lips since I tolf him how foramina works.
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:iconsnugglesthedinosaur:
snugglesthedinosaur Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2016  Hobbyist General Artist
Helpless by Valia2305 Look in the comment section here. He's still as stubborn here.
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:icondovahkiinhu3br:
DovahkiinHU3BR Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2016
Actually He did not act on a stubborn way. He even said that the art was nice.
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:icondontknowwhattodraw94:
Dontknowwhattodraw94 Featured By Owner Aug 21, 2016  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Ah, I see.
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:iconacepredator:
acepredator Featured By Owner Jun 25, 2016
This also applies to modern animals.

people think Nile crocs eat mostly large mammals due to the fact that is what the media shows, when they mostly eat large fish.

and because Pleistocene megafauna are never shown with other modern animals, people get the mistaken notion they do not belong in our world, when they are just as modern as lions or elephants or human beings, and are a part of the biosphere we eliminated.
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:iconkinhj:
kinhj Featured By Owner May 30, 2017  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
That's true, I also get bothered that in a lot of movies that take place in the past like 19th century America they don't show the animals and plants that lived in the country like jaguars, ocelots, Rocky Mountain locusts, Carolina parakeets, and passenger pigeons.
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:iconacepredator:
acepredator Featured By Owner May 30, 2017
Exactly
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:iconceratopsia:
Ceratopsia Featured By Owner Jun 15, 2016  Hobbyist General Artist
These are truly words of wisdom. You summed it up beautifully :) 
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:icondontknowwhattodraw94:
Dontknowwhattodraw94 Featured By Owner Jun 15, 2016  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Thanks :)
Reply
:iconceratopsia:
Ceratopsia Featured By Owner Jun 15, 2016  Hobbyist General Artist
Your welcome :)
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:iconfredthedinosaurman:
FredtheDinosaurman Featured By Owner Jun 14, 2016  Student General Artist
Wonderful piece, couldnt agree with you more. Keep up the good work!
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:icondontknowwhattodraw94:
Dontknowwhattodraw94 Featured By Owner Jun 14, 2016  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Thank you!
Reply
:iconmidiaou:
Midiaou Featured By Owner Jun 10, 2016  Hobbyist General Artist
Well said, m8
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:icondontknowwhattodraw94:
Dontknowwhattodraw94 Featured By Owner Jun 10, 2016  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Thanks m8!
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:iconvenatorius:
Venatorius Featured By Owner Jun 6, 2016  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
The Smilodon on the lower right looks like a feline version of a mastiff haha.
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:icondontknowwhattodraw94:
Dontknowwhattodraw94 Featured By Owner Jun 6, 2016  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Yeah, it's impossible to not make it look like a dog with such lips xD
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:iconvenatorius:
Venatorius Featured By Owner Jun 6, 2016  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
If this depiction would be true,it might be nicknamed the "Mastiff Cat" haha.
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:icondontknowwhattodraw94:
Dontknowwhattodraw94 Featured By Owner Jun 6, 2016  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
xD
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:iconperfectchaos22:
PerfectChaos22 Featured By Owner Jun 6, 2016  Hobbyist Artist
That Smilodon on the bottom right is hilariously adorable, he looks like a Walrus XD
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:iconcjcroen:
CJCroen Featured By Owner Jun 5, 2016  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Very good commentary!
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:icondontknowwhattodraw94:
Dontknowwhattodraw94 Featured By Owner Jun 6, 2016  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Thanks :)
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:iconsin-and-love:
sin-and-love Featured By Owner Jun 4, 2016
Sabre-toothe jay Leno, or Sabre-toothed Jamie Hyneman?
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:iconelithedinoguy:
EliTheDinoGuy Featured By Owner Edited Jun 3, 2016  Student General Artist
I agree. In a newspaper article in our local paper they talked about Scotty the Tyrannosaurus, Saskatchewan's most famous dinosaur discovery. They later talked about research that suggests that Tyrannosaurus had lips to which they responded, "making Tyrannosaurus not as scary", to which I responded in likeness to this. Well said though I'm not as sure about smilodon...
:)
Reply
:icondontknowwhattodraw94:
Dontknowwhattodraw94 Featured By Owner Jun 4, 2016  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Yeah, I think most articles are like that. There's even one that didn't even include a picture of a lipped rex, just a very inaccurate shrink-wrapped sculpture.
Smilodon and other sabretooths are indeed a bit of more difficult subject, but there are some good arguments actually for them to cover their sabres.
Reply
:iconthatcoelurosaur:
ThatCoelurosaur Featured By Owner Feb 15, 2017  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
To be honest, I was on the gravy train for lipped smilodon, that is, until I read Mark Witton's post. Now I'm not so sure. Honestly, at this time, smilodon with exposed teeth seems just as accurate as a smilodon with covered ones
Reply
:icondontknowwhattodraw94:
Dontknowwhattodraw94 Featured By Owner Feb 16, 2017  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Yeah, after Mark wrote that post I'm sure Smilodon had them naked though it could still have had something going on to cover them up partly. You never know.
For other sabretoothed cats I'm pretty sure they simply had pockets (those I know off that is). They have the flanges for it.
Reply
:iconelithedinoguy:
EliTheDinoGuy Featured By Owner Jun 4, 2016  Student General Artist
Indeed there is
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:icontyraxxus:
Tyraxxus Featured By Owner Jun 2, 2016
Well said my friend.
Reply
:icondontknowwhattodraw94:
Dontknowwhattodraw94 Featured By Owner Jun 3, 2016  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Thanks :)
Reply
:iconcomixqueen:
comixqueen Featured By Owner Jun 2, 2016  Professional Digital Artist
:iconclapplz:
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:icondontknowwhattodraw94:
Dontknowwhattodraw94 Featured By Owner Jun 3, 2016  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Thank you! Thank you! 
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:icondovahkiinhu3br:
GREAT JOB, but I must disagree about how you made the lips because you just ignored some possibilities.

First of all: saliva and moisture do not preserve enamel on a way that the tooth could be used forever, otherwise we would not have to brush our teeth and modern mammalian predators would show white teeth instead of yellowish ones. What actually damages enamel are, for example, acids got from sugar and bacteria.

T. rex, for example, frequently replaced it's teeth just like a crocodile. Crocodiles may get badly damaged teeth, but they are soon replaced.

Having in mind all this, some theropods could have had short, gum covering lips... that are like what we see in JP's T. rex (i.ytimg.com/vi/IhdaITbXe_U/max…).
Reply
:icondontknowwhattodraw94:
Dontknowwhattodraw94 Featured By Owner Jun 3, 2016  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Thanks :)

You're forgetting something there: mammalian adult teeth are actually dynamic systems that cycle calcium all the time in and out of the enamal via saliva. Not having saliva on your teeth (=not covering them) causes decalcification which isn't good at all.
Sure, those reastions caused by sugar and bacteria cause damage too, but I don't need to explain you that the damage we humans get from eating too much candy and such isn't something that's common in nature. (correct me if I'm wrong though)
We do get also problems because of scale, something you'd expect other animals to have too, but to be honest I don't know of animals getting problems with that (rotten teeth) untill they're getting old and it's normal for them to die.

Yes, but covered teeth seems to be the basic feature of all terrestrial vertebrates and crocodiles are  a derived version of it because they lost their lips due to their aquatic lifestyle and tactile faces, something Tyrannosaurus lacks. Varanids are a better example the 2016 abstract says (the one these recent articles are talking about) since theropods basically have the same tooth size-skull size proportions as scaled up varanids. Tyrannosaurus its teeth aren't that much different from those of other theropods so you'd need to come up with a really good argument for them to have lost completely covered teeth and gone for the crocodile way.

But that's not actually the point of this post. I just wanted people to inform about new palaeontologic finds and discoveries without them to freak out about it because it looks less cool.
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:icondovahkiinhu3br:
I tought about the decalcification thing to make one of my deviantations. Here is what I got:

Lack of moisture is not what causes enamel erosion (some say that the enamel would crack like this, but if this was a significant threat it would be one of the symptoms of dry mouth, but this is not the case). If you search about how saliva helps the teeth, it may help to kill some microorganisms and contains some components that "rebuild" enamel, but our saliva, for example, is about 99% water, so the quantity of the other components is too small to be able to effectively maintain enamel. "Then the saliva of dinosaurs could be made of a smaller quantity of water to make it more effective" actually not because a lower percentage of water would make it more viscous, so it would not spread effectively trough the mouth of the animal. Also having in mind that the upper jaw of many theropods (like T. rex itself) was wider than the lower one, the lower teeth would not be effectively "helped" by saliva as the greater part of the tooth would not be in direct contact with any surface that would easily contain saliva (lips, gums, tongue if it was small, etc). In our case, for example, the shape of our jaw makes all of our teeth be in direct contact with our lips and/or cheeks and our tongue (big in proportion to the mouth) only makes it easier for our teeth to be always covered by big quantities of saliva.

Also even if moisture was needed: crocodiles would not be a good example since they may spend hours and ours out of water. In fact a great part of their lifetime is spent sunbathing... and when they swim they swim on very dirty waters (with swamp crocodilians being on another level in this aspect). By this ratiocination of "enamel is preserved by moisture regardless of what comes with it", theropods could have kept their teeth moisty by drinking water and by eating (blood on the teeth).
Reply
:icondontknowwhattodraw94:
Dontknowwhattodraw94 Featured By Owner Aug 21, 2016  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
That could be, but that's still not a reason to lose lips, I think. Crocodiles are the only ones who have lost theirs, while if you look at other aquatic animals going from hippos to sharks you'll see those all have lips regardless of the structure of the tooth or how many teeth they replace throughout their life. I'm pretty sure it's just a basal thing to have lips unless there's something really special going on.
Reply
:icondovahkiinhu3br:
DovahkiinHU3BR Featured By Owner Aug 21, 2016
There is no special situation, just evolution itself. Lets take sharks as an example: more "modern looking" sharks usually have teeth covering lips (and I would not be surprised if most non avian theropods had such lips), but if we take a look at the goblin shark (netstorage.discovery.com/feeds… static2.businessinsider.com/im…) we see that it's lips only cover it's gums. As evolution is based on random mutations that may give advantages or disvantages, we can spaculate.

PS: I am only sad about this aspect because most artists do not pay much attention to such lips. The Isle's acrocanthosaurus is a great example: I saw a screenshot on Steam that shows that this acro is bitting it's own lower lips!
Reply
:icondontknowwhattodraw94:
Dontknowwhattodraw94 Featured By Owner Aug 21, 2016  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Never saw that acrocanthosaurus actually, never looked something up of that game. Weird that they made it like that.
Reply
:icondovahkiinhu3br:
DovahkiinHU3BR Featured By Owner Aug 21, 2016
Not just wierd, it is also kinda frustrating.
Reply
:icondovahkiinhu3br:
DovahkiinHU3BR Featured By Owner Jun 3, 2016
"Not having saliva on your teeth (=not covering them) causes decalcification which isn't good at all. " actually this happens even when our teeth are covered because our saliva can not remineralize enough enamel when the demineralization is to fast.

Portions of meat stuck on the teeth will make it easier for the enamel to decay (that is why my father always want to throw floss on me), so even mammalian carnivores may get fast tooth decay, but I doubt that pieces of meat are worse than sugars. Also mammal have a thicker layer of enamel than reptiles do.

This problem with age happens with most mammals because constant tooth replacemnet is not very common among mammals. Crocodiles, at the other hand, have few problems.

I see your point, but you are talking about modern animals and mammals in general. Non avian theropods are kinda unique here and in the case of T. rex it's long tooth crowns (more curved than the root and definitely proportionally longer than those of varanids) and if the lower lips were longer they would fall to the sides and expose dthe teeth and gums. If the upper ones were longer the teeth would be accomodated, but those long lips would easily swing with any head movement and it would caugh the attention of rivals during fights. In the end we would find clear, long tooth marks on the dentary and the maxilla, not only small marks on the nasals and close to them. But this only works for dinosaurs with unusually long tooth crowns, so I think that teeth covering lips on almost all theropods is very possible (images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__c…), without mentioning that these are far more compareble to varanids.

Also keep in mind that short, gum covering lips are a possibility.

I know, I got it. But wouldn't it be better to take a closer look first? I mean: if you find my argument about long crowns a good one, you could use allosaurus as an example (fredthedinosaurman.deviantart.…)
Reply
:iconrandomdinos:
randomdinos Featured By Owner Edited Jun 2, 2016  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Yellowish teeth are not decayed teeth. Decayed teeth can dry, crack and fall off. Mammalian predators' teeth don't do this, because they aren't decayed.
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:icondovahkiinhu3br:
DovahkiinHU3BR Featured By Owner Jun 2, 2016
Yellowish teeth are teeth with decayed enamel. Dentine is yellow, so yellowish teeth means a thinner layer of enamel.
Reply
:iconrandomdinos:
randomdinos Featured By Owner Jun 2, 2016  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
The yellowish teeth of mammals are stained, not decayed.
s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/7…
The above are stained teeth. Stained tooth is a very common problem, which is indeed (as you mentioned) caused by food and bacteria, and doesn't hinder the animal's ability to use those teeth.
www.dental--health.com/images/…
www.baltimorecosmeticimplantde…
Those are diagnosed cases of enamel erosion. Enamel erosion is caused by excessive soft drink consumption, genetic factors, dry mouth, and acid reflux.
Reply
:icondovahkiinhu3br:
DovahkiinHU3BR Featured By Owner Jun 2, 2016
www.webmd.com/oral-health/guid… "As you age, the outer layer of enamel on your teeth gets worn away, revealing the natural yellow color of dentin" enamel decay only makes it be faster. Also www.google.com.br/search?q=ena…
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